temp ban?

[Bizz]

Hello,

How come I received a temp ban?

I was trading items and silver through my toon chain then started to play my warrior and got kicked mid fight with a murloc

[Kestrel]

For context see https://octowow.st/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2913

Tricking players into flagging for PvP while safe in an instance then ambushing them with your second toon (or having your friend do it) is why you received a temp ban.

Looking closer it appears that it was another person who got the previous ban for this, and this was your first time receiving discipline for this type of behavior.

In light of that I've lifted the ban and will just have this serve as a warning, if you are caught doing this again, you will be banned.

Truth (another conspirator in this situation) will be keeping their 7 days ban as they were already banned for this behavior previously.

[Defiant]

Truth (another conspirator in this situation) will be keeping their 7 days ban as they were already banned for this behavior previously.

It's wild that Truth kept doing it after already receiving a ban.

[Wubc]

It's wild that Truth kept doing it after already receiving a ban.

I'm kinda surprised that repeated offenses of griefing on a HC realm, where the negative impact on others is infinitely higher: quite plausibly costing the victim more than 7 days, is not a perma-ban and instead a slap on the wrist. I don't make the rules, but that seems off to me.

[Adesta113]

Well, killing someone who type /pvp it's by rule. It's entirely the player’s own decision. It’s not a missclick, nor is it an auto-flag triggered by quest or bug. Forgot to turn it off? That, too, is solely on player. If it's was multiboxing, okay, temp ban is fine. But goes to dung with someone in warmode own decision. Especially if you war/pala who will get auto-on pvp due to shout and holy strike (which I reported). So it's some kind of meme: "I will turn pvp on cuz I'm in dung and you will get ban for it".

[Wubc]

Well, killing someone who type /pvp it's by rule. It's entirely the player’s own decision. It’s not a missclick, nor is it an auto-flag triggered by quest or bug. Forgot to turn it off? That, too, is solely on player. If it's was multiboxing, okay, temp ban is fine. But goes to dung with someone in warmode own decision. Especially if you war/pala who will get auto-on pvp due to shout and holy strike (which I reported). So it's some kind of meme: "I will turn pvp on cuz I'm in dung and you will get ban for it".

It's not about whether you can kill a flagged player. It is about whether you can maliciously entice someone to flag, knowing you (or an associate) will take advantage of it to kill them under the pretense of protection gained from the instance. The premeditation is quite crucial so, no you would not get banned simply because someone flagged, as you had nothing to do with why they flagged...

And looking at the rules:

Intentional abuse of game mechanics to kill hardcore players. Being bad is not griefing. Hunting warmode players is not griefing. Tricking players into flagging for PvP or infiltrating a raid and sabotaging it are.

so, it is in fact specifically against the rules. However I can not be sure if this is a new addition or has always been there as I don't play Hc myself and no revision history is available AFAIK.

[Adesta113]

Well, killing someone who type /pvp it's by rule. It's entirely the player’s own decision. It’s not a missclick, nor is it an auto-flag triggered by quest or bug. Forgot to turn it off? That, too, is solely on player. If it's was multiboxing, okay, temp ban is fine. But goes to dung with someone in warmode own decision. Especially if you war/pala who will get auto-on pvp due to shout and holy strike (which I reported). So it's some kind of meme: "I will turn pvp on cuz I'm in dung and you will get ban for it".

It's not about whether you can kill a flagged player. It is about whether you can maliciously entice someone to flag, knowing you (or an associate) will take advantage of it to kill them under the pretense of protection gained from the instance. The premeditation is quite crucial so, no you would not get banned simply because someone flagged, as you had nothing to do with why they flagged...

And looking at the rules:

Intentional abuse of game mechanics to kill hardcore players. Being bad is not griefing. Hunting warmode players is not griefing. Tricking players into flagging for PvP or infiltrating a raid and sabotaging it are.

so, it is in fact specifically against the rules. However I can not be sure if this is a new addition or has always been there as I don't play Hc myself and no revision history is available AFAIK.

It's new addition in rules. And IF you on pvp, manually, no one forced you to do this. This new addition looks like absolutely shit. Disable PvP if it’s not allowed to kill someone who enabled it themselves. Disable it at all on HC. This just looks like protection for an idiot. No joke. Is a person really so stupid that they'll type "kill me" and then whine when they actually get killed? It’s impossible to "trick" someone into typing "/pvp." Well, okay, maybe it is possible, if you're type "/moon" just to find out where the DMF is. But that’s not this case, we're talking about player who enabled PvP voluntarily, knowingly, and of their own free will and was ganked after. It was ambush? Maybe. But main reason - he use own hand for typing /pvp? Also yes.

[Defiant]

This new addition looks like absolutely shit.

No one cares. It's literally like 1% of 1% of the playerbase that wants to be scumbags like that tbh. Now they can't, and the community as a whole is better off for it.

I've covered this in another thread already so I won't go over it much, but this must be a cultural issue or something because most people I know would think you're a scumbag for doing this sort of thing, like an absolute scumbag. Yes they chose to flag PVP, in order to help you, in order to allow you to be included in group play, in order to be nice. If that's how you operate, well, personally I'm glad that you would end up banned. I fully support this decision and the only people it will negatively impact are in my opinion absolute genuine scumbags.

[Adesta113]

This new addition looks like absolutely shit.

No one cares. It's literally like 1% of 1% of the playerbase that wants to be scumbags like that tbh. Now they can't, and the community as a whole is better off for it.

I've covered this in another thread already so I won't go over it much, but this must be a cultural issue or something because most people I know would think you're a scumbag for doing this sort of thing, like an absolute scumbag. Yes they chose to flag PVP, in order to help you, in order to allow you to be included in group play, in order to be nice. If that's how you operate, well, personally I'm glad that you would end up banned. I fully support this decision and the only people it will negatively impact are in my opinion absolute genuine scumbags.

They can just say "no inv for warmoders" if they are forming party (as I do), or "I will not go with warmoder" and leave party if they was invited (as I do). But what sense of pvp, especially in possibility to on and off it, if you will be banned for killing player who flagged as pvp by his own will? I always mention against any PvP (on HC server) expect BG. But since we have pvp, an open opportunity for everyone to off it and on, we shouldn't limit this possibility based on fact that person who was killed had enabled PvP themselves. Personally me never participate in any PvP (on HC server; even in grouping with WM), with exception of BGs, which will be available SOONtm for HC. By the way, moderators, rules for forum same as in-game? I think here is
Insulting or otherwise harassing a player or group from Chat Expectations sections.

[Wubc]

They can just say "no inv for warmoders" if they are forming party (as I do), or "I will not go with warmoder" and leave party if they was invited (as I do). But what sense of pvp, especially in possibility to on and off it, if you will be banned for killing player who flagged as pvp by his own will? I always mention against any PvP (on HC server) expect BG. But since we have pvp, an open opportunity for everyone to off it and on, we shouldn't limit this possibility based on fact that person who was killed had enabled PvP themselves. Personally me never participate in any PvP (on HC server; even in grouping with WM), with exception of BGs, which will be available SOONtm for HC. By the way, moderators, rules for forum same as in-game? I think here is
Insulting or otherwise harassing a player or group from Chat Expectations sections.

Again: You will NOT be banned if you simply attack a flagged player. That is allowed, as per the rules. If you however maliciously and knowingly trick (or coordinate with someone else to trick) someone to flag just so you can attack them, you will. These are completely different scenarios, and you absolutely can not end up in the latter by accident.

Should they just kick any flagged players? Probably (assuming it's no the group leader doing it...). But as I believe you are fully able to comprehend, as are the people doing it, there is a level of social pressure to make an exception and go along with it, especially if you assume you have the protection of being instanced... This is exactly why it works. Some people will be nice and try to facilitate the group keeping going and then forget about it, which is what the griefers are counting on.

This is not a case of "pvp happened". Claiming it as such is either malicious intent or willful ignorance.